Thursday, August 17, 2006
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41 opinions/comments:
"input"? I don't think this is intended to be a warm and fuzzy two-way dialogue.
At every step along the way the Nation has acted unilaterally. I have been on a community association for about 4 years now and there has been a standing invitation to the Nation to participate... they have never invitied us or asked for our feedback.
I realize they can do this, but it seems so specifically targetted against their neighbours.
The DNV and its citizens have done a ton to improve the visual impact of our shared neighbourhoods. This is a setback.
What has the District done, exactly? Why is there is no "Welcome to North Vancouver" sign or display like what West Vancouver has, or what Kitsilano has when you get off the Burrard Street Bridge.
Frankly, with the kind of example being set by the City and District in terms of urban esthetics, Squamish Nation has a right to do what they darn well please.
Only Ernie would make the completely ridiculous argument that the Squamish putting up billboards is the District's fault.
Go Squamish GO!!!!!!!
According to the Internet "the Squamish Nation People are scattered from North Vancouver, Gibson's Landing to the area north of Howe Sound." hmmmmm, I sort of feel left out with their announcement which states quite clearly that it is a warning, oops, "public information open houses about its planned installation of 13 outdoor advertising signs" (is there a possibiltiy that we'll soon have them indoors as well to ruin our views).... hmmmmmm, the 30 year contracts have already been awarded too.
Has Yoho "Sam the Man" from Vancouver City Hall been told of this announcement?
It does say "Vancouver City" doesn't it, not the City of North Vancouver.
"I sort of feel left out with their announcement"
Yeah really, what on earth did we ever do to the First Nations that might cause them not to give a crap what we think?
Oh yeah.
Heather, if you feel like you are trespassing, you can make your personal remedy right now by going back to whatever your ancestors came from.
Public input is always such a democratic way to go, but but from experience, it doesn't work because groups like the Amerindians (the proper anthropological term) will just turn around and do their own thing anyways,because of their sense of entitlement to do so, and most people will just shrug and allow this injustice to happen.
Next time you drive across the bridge, both ways, really look at the scenery and then picture how gawd darn ugly the billboards will be. And boycott every company that advertises there.
And if you are brave enough, late at night, paintball the whole lot of billboards to smithereens. You can always blame "Adbusters" (You didn't hear it here!)
The Squamish Nations have announced they intend to place large Signage Boards on their sovereign lands.
In previous newspaper announcements they also placed a financial benefit for each board placed, approximately $50,000 per year per signage unit. These moneys would directly benefit their citizens.
If the other citizens of the North Shore wish to not have these signage units placed it would be in the North Shore other citizens best interests to enter into negotiations with the Squamish Nation to investigate alternative methods of replacing the lost benefits.
David Dixon.
gee whiz, in my days as a youth, it was a Scored highways minister who when responding to the question as to why his Right Of Way for Highways was so wide, replied, paraphrased, "we don't want our roads to end up looking like a first nations reserve."
His term of Office was short-end.
A sign of our times maybe execessive use of billboards space where once stood only views of moutains or the city of vancouver.
To Dave Dixon, no matter how much the Squamish Nation cries poverty, THEY DON'T (OR SHOULD NOT) NEED THE MONEY!!! If they are claiming tha they are short of money, then maybe members of the band should ask for an accounting of income and expense from their management committee, or whatever they call it.
"Public input is always such a democratic way to go, but but from experience, it doesn't work because groups like the Amerindians (the proper anthropological term) will just turn around and do their own thing anyways,because of their sense of entitlement to do so, and most people will just shrug and allow this injustice to happen."
Billboards an injustice?
How about kidnapping all their kids, forbidding them to speak their language, sexually abusing the bulk of them, introducing drugs, alcohol, and small pox to their communities, taking away their traditional lands, and polluting the hell out of their land, air, and water?
You wouldn't be thinking of that injustice, would you?
Billboards an injustice! The selfishness and racism is disgusting.
(As a side note, the "proper anthropological term" given to First Nations people by white people might not be what First Nations people wish to be called by white people. I know it's totally foreign for white folks like us to think this way, but perhaps, rather than labelling people with a "proper anthropological term", we should ask their opinion! If First Nations people decided that the "proper anthropological term" for white folks was "Eurorapists", I think we might object heavily, despite it being a closer interpretation of our people's history than Amerindian is of theirs. From what I can tell, the First Nations people are neither Italian (Ameri) nor from India (Indian).)
George the Reformer said...
"Heather, if you feel like you are trespassing, you can make your personal remedy right now by going back to whatever your ancestors came from."
And I'm sure that will rectify all of the above problems if she did.
And further, what a double standard! Non-aboriginal governments all over the country allow billboards to go up (driven along a highway lately?), and then we turn around and say that First Nations governments can't do the same in areas under their governmental jurisdiction?
Crikey.
billboards are passe folks, they only "catch" your attention, and then you forget about it. The "new" billboard has gone electronic, via cell phones.
New Zealand is on the leading edge of a technology that as you drive by their billboards, it automatically dials up your cell phone number, much like those un-wanted late night faxes, to give you the spiel on your need to buy their products, now.
Obviously New Zealand hasn't a ban on cell phone use while driving, however, if you want to stymie these new billboards advertisers in their tracks, start talking to your backbench MLAs to get the deal regulated. We'll all be safer behind the wheel.
I wonder if the "people" living below the bridges have read the fine print in their new contract.
To the other citizens, no matter how much the District of North Vancouver cries poverty, THEY DON'T (OR SHOULD NOT) NEED THE MONEY!!! If they are claiming tha they are short of money, then maybe members of the council should ask for an accounting of income and expense from their management committee, or whatever they call it.
Sorry they just raise taxes, no need for billboards,
I intend to withhold judgement on what the billboards will look like. If they are not too obtrusive then fine. Capitalism is not a dirty word though it is easy to be anti-social with one's advertising. One look at my fax machine each morning would demonstrate that.
If the signs DO turn out to be a 'massive Trudeau salute' to the rest of the community as has been suggested I will have no hesitation writing each of the companies that advertise with them and telling them exactly why they should not expect my business so long as those signs remain and will actively encourage friends and family to do likewise.
I would do the same if it were DNV or DWV if the signs turn out to be as bad as suggested.
Certainly I do not like the signage on Squamish land on the south side of Marine Drive between Capilano Road and the bridge. If that's what the Squamish think is acceptable then the letters mentioned above will certainly be written.
Both the Tseil-wa-Tuth and Squamish have gotten a more than decent deal from North and West Vancouver taxpayers. The former have been reasonable neighbors (though I would like to see some cooperation on bike lanes along Dollarton Hwy) while the latter have tended to be confrontational and hostile starting with Kapilano 100 and numerous projects since.
Spare me the politically correct garbage about how badly they have been treated - this is one of the richest bands in the entire country and we are certainly not talking about the reserves of the rural Prairies which are far far worse off than anything on the North Shore.
"Spare me the politically correct garbage about how badly they have been treated"
Yeah, I guess if we stole your language, land, and raped you, you'd just get over it, too, and think any respect paid to you was just politically correct garbage.
The issue isn't really one of how you feel about the First Nations people, it's one of jurisdiction.
First Nations have no jurisdiction over municipalities and the reverse is true, as well.
It's disgusting that white people want to exert dominion over the small amount of land that still remains under the control of First Nations people when we control over 99% of the rest of the land in this country.
"Yeah, I guess if we stole your language, land, and raped you, you'd just get over it, too,......"
is that how it was before the Europeans came to North America. Was there never a raiding party from one band on another band, killing men, raping / kidnapping the women, "adopting" the children and stealing the land? Was it the Europeans that created the overlapping land claims by various band members or was it intermarriage by theft, blurred memories of a childhood of "I used to own....."?
Were the Haida, Squamish, Musqueam and Tseil wa tuth pacifists? War canoes weren't; racing canoes they were, the name change didn't happen until the second coming of a European in June 1792 when Captain George Vancouver entered these local waters.
Calm down, breathe ..... breathe....now list where you have seen 13 billboards (non-native) on the North Shore....... none, right? Real estate is far too valuable to just be there to have a billboard on it..... wait a minute... the old polluted with fossil fuel Imperial gas station at Capilano and Marine Drive... does it have a couple of billboards???? where else... not on the highway, they're not permitted.
Okay, Marine drive, west of Capilano, south side, there are billboards, on native land. Can anyone remember what's on the darn signs? You've all waited for many an hour for the traffic to move along towards the bridge. What comes to mind, well the north side has Denny's, Earl's...
13 signs, at driver highway height where you are doing 70 to 80 to 90 kilometer per hour.... BLINK... and they're gone.
Yes, we admit it, the residential school system was an attrocious program that damaged thousands of young lives. I'm sorry, we're sorry, and we should work to restore people that have been catastrophically damaged by this program... but there must be an end.
For Heather et al. to infer that making a criticism of the Squamish Nations policy is in itself a cardinal sin is so completely backwards.
I still have a right to my opinion and the right to share it.
Personally, I think there should be an uproar against this sort of bad neighbour planning. That way when they consider expanding the program next year to 30 signs including the Whistler corridor they might be hesitant to set off another maelstrom.
Apex mountain tried to expand within their own land, but did the local band respect that they could do that? Nope they recognized that the expansion would negatively impact them and they protested by blockading the road and cutting off the town of Apex.
This tactic was also used in the same types of situations in Kanata, Oka, Caledonia, Grassy Narrows, and Eskasoni.
The Squamish Nation themselves blockaded lanes on the Lions Gate bridge to support the Caledonia blockade... again a municipality working on its own land being interferred by the Band.
I'm not suggesting we should escalate to blockading the Squamish Nation, I'm simply saying that I have a right to protest and have every intention of letting the Band know my displeasure with their unwanted, unnecessary visual pollution.
"is that how it was before the Europeans came to North America?"
So the fact that there *might* have been cultures here prior to the Europeans who behaved as badly as we did makes our actions ok?
In fact, though, there isn't any evidence to suggest anything of this nature happened before. Wars and disputes over territory and leadership? Sure. But a new group of settlers arriving, pretending to befriend the "Indians," then screwing them out of everything (and breaking our own laws to do it) without even having the balls to declare war and fight? Nope. Never happened. Hell, the "Indians" could've slaughtered us in a second if they'd wanted to. We were far outnumbered by them in the early days of the province. That's partly why the early settlers supported the treaty process.
"we should work to restore people that have been catastrophically damaged by this program... but there must be an end"
The end will come the day that average British Columbians recognize the First Nations as the lawful owners, not just of their reserve lands, but of all portions of B.C. not already seeded by treaty (which is nearly all of it)...and when we treat them with the respect with which we would treat any other government with whom we were trying to reach an accord over territorial claims.
Anything short of that just carries on the legacy of racism established here by Joseph Trutch in 1871. ...and really, he's not the sort of guy whose values you want to be aligned with.
"For Heather et al. to infer that making a criticism of the Squamish Nations policy is in itself a cardinal sin is so completely backwards."
I didn't say it was a cardinal sin. I actually think it's hilarious...in a truly pathetic, I-can't-believe-there-are-still-actual-human-beings-who-think-like-you sort of way.
So you're still saying that we should ever criticize the Squamish Nations policies?
"might"??????????
A 10,000 year old midden on the shores of Stanley Park, at Lumberman's Arch, says otherwise.
Ahh, to have 10,000 years of peace, without war, heatherk. And then you came along on your forefathers great white ship from Europe, 214 years ago to rape, steal land and language. While your ancestors were fighting over land, baubles and silk from China (they still do, don't they) the people here were peaceful, co-existing individuals, without one thought amongst them of jealousy............
We are here today, applying laws and world opinion on a situation that couldn't be resolved in 10,214 years. If we can make it work here, there is hope in the Middle East, but that will only come about by first having a mutual respect for each other's living space, not commericalized to the nth degree.
I'm confused, Anon. What are you saying? That because our history of both literal and cultural genocide put an end to Aboriginal tribal warfare, that our methods are good and just and a model for the world?
You're right, of course. If you outlaw a group's language, religion and culture; terrorize them out of practicing it; and appropriate their land, you will quickly remove everything they ever had to fight about - which, in turn, will certainly put an end to war.
If we appropriated all the land in the Middle East and ruled with an iron fist until everyone there was forced to speak English, practice Christianity, and behave like Europeans, I'm sure we would have the situation there completely licked in a couple of generations.
Geez, why didn't anyone think of that ages ago?
Ah yes, Anon. When we arrived on these shores, the "Indians" were nothing but "savages." But thanks to our enlightened regime of lies, genocide, cultural imperialism and sexual abuse, the worst trouble they ever cause now is by having the nerve to copy us, by erecting these ugly things we call "billboards" on their land.
Wow. We sure did provide a model of civilization for them didn't we?
Nice to see you back Dave Dixon. I thought you were lost to us.
"The end will come the day that average British Columbians recognize the First Nations as the lawful owners, not just of their reserve lands, but of all portions of B.C. not already seeded by treaty (which is nearly all of it)...and when we treat them with the respect with which we would treat any other government with whom we were trying to reach an accord over territorial claims."
You lost me there heatherk. Why would be trying to reach an accord over territorial claims if we had already acknowledged that they own everything. What's to negotiate. Let's pack our bags and leave, better yet, maybe we should move onto a reserve, lose our land, our language, but we already are doing that by being a multicultural country.
We spend 50 weeks a year in the same home, same town, and if we are lucky, we get to take off for two weeks to go visit another "reserve".
What you are talking about is whom is the landlord, forever.
"Why would be trying to reach an accord over territorial claims if we had already acknowledged that they own everything."
That's precisely why ARE engaged in negotiating land claims. Because we live here, yet we've never lawfully purchased the land from the First Nations (except for a few parcels on Vancouver Island, the treaty 8 territory in Northern B.C. and, of course, the Nisga Treaty territory). Therefore, we have some catching up to do in order to finally put things right with the First Nations.
"Let's pack our bags and leave"
You can if you want to but the Aboriginal communities have never asked us to (and I don't see us all packing our bags). All they've ever asked since the beginning of B.C. history is that we acknowledge their title to the province (which was and is a matter of our law, not theirs) and negotiate in good faith for the land we want to occupy.
"but we already are doing that by being a multicultural country."
Well that comment sure does speak for itself.
"What you are talking about is whom is the landlord, forever."
No. I'm talking about what's involved having legitimate ownership of the land.
According to the Land Titles office I own my land (well the banking institution has a pretty sizable hold on it before me). During Campbell's first mandate he sent out 2.3 million flyers asking pertinent questions on how his government should handle negotiations with the, well you know, the people who were here first before Europeans, and he stated,unequivocally, that private land was not up to be grabbed. Public land yes.
Why do I have to acknowledge to anyone, other than City Hall and the BC Assessment Office, who also owns my private taxable property?
If you, heatherk, feel so guilty about having not acnowledged who owns the land upon which you walk..... you need to see a .... oh forget it
This has nothing to do with guilt, anon. I suggest you do some research on the history of British Columbia before you embarass yourself any further with your ignorance.
You don't have to acknowledge anything to anybody but I think you'd be ashamed to discover who's side of history you're on in that regard.
Even Gordon Campbell has changed his tune over the years he's been in office.
Oh yeah. The first nations don't ask anyone to leave. They just jack up the land lease rates and annual charges so high no one can afford to stay.
There are millions upon millions of Canadians, and many more Americans, past and present, who have been here for generations upon generations, who do not live on reserves, and who have hiked more trails, fished more rivers, canoed more lakes, climbed more mountains and tended more campfires than almost all the people of the first nations have ever done. All the first nations propaganda in the world will not change the fact that those Canadians and Americans are at least as indigenous as those who has the temerity to pronounce themselves the one and only true "natives" of this land.
http://stopbillboards.blogspot.com/
Feel free to post your comments here. I am absolutely outraged and plan to work with anyone to stop the billboards.
This will be the slap in the face to everyone in this communtiy if they let the squamish nation pursue the destruction of our city. What a joke, we will loose millions in tourism because our city has Coca Cola advertisments everywhere...Nobody wants to look at that and trust me this will be just the beginning.
How 'bout stopping racism instead. That might be a better use of your time.
Thursday, August 24, 2006
DEAR CHIEF BILL WILLIAMS: STOP SELLING THE NORTHSHORE
The Squamish First Nation is intent on destroying the natural view and natural surroundings of one of the world's most amazing landscapes, BC's Northshore, the entry point to the famed Sea-To-Sky Hwy and home to the 2010 Olympic Winter Games. This decision will not only ruin and destroy the natural settings that residents have worked so hard to preserve, but will destroy the overall sense of community, privacy and beach-town getaway that we all pay for and work so hard to continue.
I cannot understand how we as a community continuously put up with the hypercritical policy demands that the Squamish Nations and other Aboriginal groups seem to impose on society. One minute these bands join forces with national groups and other bands to blockade the Lions Gate Bridge to innocent commuters in an effort to support Calendonia's band, forcing children to be abandoned by the parents at school who are stuck in hours and hours of stopped traffic not too mention creating absolute disasters for most people, then they went on to protest the development of Eagle Ridge Bluff (which I personally supported) shouting how big brother, local politicians and the business community were all nothing short of Satan's corporate gang and yet, today, due to their greed and intolerance for the community they live in, they force upon the commericalization of what can only be deemed is a public source of transit which just happens to also command one of the world's most spectacular views.
I desperately want to support and work with aboriginal communities, but I can no longer support any group of citizens, when the message is always off key and full of greed. For Chief Bill Williams, you disgust me. This is not about West Vancouverites not wanting to have our view cut off as you stated on City TV news this morning, but it is about us recognizing your own greed and absolute hypocrisy when it comes to our land, our water and our communities and the environment.
The only message I see here is money...you're not broke or in financial ruin as a band, you make an absolute fortune from the leasing of your land...where does the money go? You live tax free, you offer your land to the highest bidder, the government compensates you, so tell me why do you need to sell off the environment???
So next time you talk about healthy communities, protecting the environment, stoppage of corporate greed against your communities or anything that at all pertains to a sincere thought, I as many of us will just close our eyes and ears to your pleas. We are truly disgusted.
While much of the current debate has focused on the potential for increased visual pollution in an almost pristine environment with unimpeded vistas of our coastal forested mountains and the inherent reduction in quality of life concerns, I believe that there are significant health and safety factors which are being ignored.
Common sense, the courts and research all tell us that billboards are a highway safety hazard. In fact, billboards are designed and built for the specific purpose of distracting our attention as motorists. Outdoor advertising depends on the ability of roadside displays to pull the eyes of motorists off the road and onto billboards.
Drivers can’t ignore billboards. As the Institute of Outdoor Advertising itself says, "Outdoor’s sheer physical size allows for eye stopping, bigger-than-life illustrations. It is virtually impossible not to notice the world’s biggest scoop of ice cream or shiny automobile. At night a billboard encounters no other visual to compete with the motorist’s attention. There is only eye stopping visual display emblazoned across the sky."
US Federal and state courts have long cited traffic safety as a legitimate basis for billboard regulation. For example:
• The U.S. Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals said, ". . . no empirical studies are necessary for reasonable people to conclude that billboards pose a traffic hazard, since by their very nature they are designed to distract drivers and their passengers from maintaining their view of the road." Major Media of the Southeast v. City of Raleigh (1987).
• Likewise, the California Supreme Court said: "We hold as a matter of law that an ordinance which eliminates billboards designed to be viewed from streets and highways reasonably relates to traffic safety." Metromedia v. San Diego.
In addition to the findings of the courts, a number of studies have been performed which indicate a relationship between billboards and traffic safety. In 1980 the US Federal Highway Administration did an extensive review of the research on the effects of billboards on highway safety. The study, titled Safety and Environmental Design Considerations in the Use of Commercial Electronic Variable Message Signage found "there is a positive correlation between the existence of signs and accident rates". Several other studies have found a statistical link between accident rates and billboards. The study that has most successfully isolated the variables is the Study of the Relationship Between Advertising Signs and Traffic Accidents on U.S. 40 Between Vallejo and Davis (1961 by D. Jackson Faustman). This study and a follow-up review concluded that advertising signs do have an effect on highway safety and that their existence adjacent to a highway causes accidents.
In 1984 The Wisconsin Department of Transport conducted an analysis of the incidence of accidents along a stretch of 1-94 following the installation of an electronic billboard. The analysis compared the crash rates three years before and three years after the installation of a variable message advertising sign. The purpose of the comparison was to assess whether the presence of the sign correlated with a change in the crash history. The results showed a significant increase in crash incidence of 35%. The Wisconsin DOT concluded that the EBB indeed had an effect on traffic safety, and the sign was removed.
Driver inattention is a major contributor to highway crashes according to the AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety. Further, in a recent study the US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimated that at least 25% of police-reported crashes involve some form of driver inattention.
New billboards are being produced that are entirely digitized (using projection and similar techniques), allowing animations and completely rotating advertisements. Even holographic billboards are in use in some places.
Interaction is an emerging theme in electronic billboards, with Britain at the forefront: in Piccadilly Circus the Coca-Cola billboard responds to the weather and responds with an animated wave when passersby wave at it. London movie theatres are experimenting with billboards which contain an embedded computer chip which can interact with the web browser found in many cell phones to provide more information on the subject of the advertisement. In the spring of 2004 in Times Square in New York City, a Yahoo! Autos promotion displayed on an LED billboard allowed one to call a phone number with a cell phone and play a two-person racing game where the cars appeared on the billboard. There are also upcoming billboard technologies that will synchronize with advertisements on radio stations.
It is inevitable that safety problems related to driver inattention and distraction will escalate in the future. The introduction of new technologies within the billboard industry together with new onboard driver assist systems will only compound the incidence of driver distraction and lead to unnecessary death and injury in our communities. I do not support the installation of these billboards, and have communicated this message to the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, the Honourable Jim Prentice.
heatherk said...
How 'bout stopping racism instead. That might be a better use of your time.
It strongly appears you are stuck in the middle to late middle 2oth century. How about doing a leap into the 21st? Racism is not the problem here. It is hatred, arrogance and greed, manifested by the Squamish. I would say thoughtlessness, but clearly this had been well thought out, at least by the power elite in the band.
Attitudes like yours haven't changed since the middle of the 20th century so why would we be any more polite about what we call them, Anon?
Hey HeatherK, currently there are 18 elected officials that represent our interests at three levels of government Federal, Provincial, Municipal (CNV and DNV) and there might, just might, be 54 people seeking those seats come the next time the Writs are dropped... coincidently there are 54 active Anonymous/nickname/named individuals on this Blog with aspirations to win. I've heard your voice on this one subject of racism against the first Nation people for the last two years. Could you be kind of enough to point me in a direction in which I might see other topics that you speak in defense of?
Oh just bring up all the election blogs from November to January.
Better still, don't.
Well Anon, if you've been here two years, you've read all my posts so you'll surely have no trouble finding them in the archives. I'm curious though: what do they have to do with the people running for office?
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