In light of the recent spate of killings of "known to the police" individuals, if there is to be an amalgamation of any services on the north shore to keep costs down, let it be the police departments, and do so, by including all of Metro Vancouver municipal participants.
Does West Vancouver police know what the North Vancouver RCMP are doing and are they aware of the Vancouver City Police activities along with that of neighbouring Richmond?
Burnaby RCMP knows what one of West Vancouver Police "oc-ci-fer" was doing, while driving, but it took a complaint from a concerned citizens to clean their house via third parties assistance.
Would the combined forces require each current police force boss to take a cut in pay, probably not, there still needs to be someone at the helm of the "precinct", and who would that boss's boss be, someone in Ottawa of course, if left to be administered by the contracted RCMP. Would John Les, Solicitor General, be the man in charge, finally.
(BC Civil Forfeiture Act, one example of its powers was implemented yesterday in Nanaimo which allowed a SWAT team to descend on a Hell's Angel and seize all property and left it up to the alleged bad guys to prove to the Courts, that monies earned to buy and maintain the property were done so by honourable means. eg. Hard work, income taxes paid rather than through criminal activities such as drugs, prostitution, and extortion).
There are voices being heard from the BC Liberal government that they might consider forming their own provincial police force and rid themselves of the RCMP public relations meltdown. One look at a cherished signed photograph of past achievements has their famed mounted detachment’s flagged lances replaced with Tasers ("We always get our man"). A drawback to dumping the RCMP is that one third of their costs is supplied by Ottawa, which would be lost to British Columbia forever.
Does that mean that the RCMP officers who would be thrown out of work, or perhaps seeing the "writing on the wall" in their own calendar magazine “RCMP: Retire by 50 Planner in 25 years!”, quit their paramilitary force and then transfer, along with what little of their misspent pensions being left in Ottawa to adminster, to a new entity called BCCP (British Columbia Combined Police force)?
Where would these new officers receive their training, set to the highest of standards in all of Canada? Chilliwack? Kelowna? Prince George? Could YVR (RCMP) and Port of Vancouver Canada Custom Officers (CCO) be included in this new Metro Police force or will they stay at
an arms length distance away, much like CSIS practiced during the Air India incident?
And finally during the recent secret negotiations with the First Nation Peoples and the BC and Federal governments negotiators, has there been a provision etched in stone that would require their land treaty settlement governments join a proposed BCCP, or in accordance with other outstanding legislation such as the Canadian Firearms legislation, be exempted from registering?
Dave Gosse
Saturday, November 10, 2007
Amalgamate: Metro Police Forces Should Merge
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
36 opinions/comments:
WRITTEN BY ERNIE CRIST
This by the way is not the first time this matter has been raised.
On the surface it makes perfect sense. In reality it is nothing more than a further attempt to shift the burden of policing from the high crime areas of the region such as Surrey onto the shoulders of places like the District of North Vancouver where crime despite the District's vicinity to the City of North Vancouver is still far below average.
Even as it is, the North Vancouver RCMP Detachment is seperated from the City of North Vancouver IN NAME ONLY.
If there is an emergnecy in either the City or the District, the North Vancouver RCMP notwithstanding that there are two seperate accounting systems in place will cross the line as indeed they should.
Since there are far more emergencies in the City than in the District due to the higher density and the more pronounced social problems such as drug use and homelessness, the District taxpayers are already paying more than their fair share of the crime costs in North Vancouver.
Also, the District is already contributing a fair junk of money to a regionl crime fighting administration which is over and above the normal policing cost.
The point to be made here is that, if municipalities and cities elect to creat high density CONCRETE jungles as they have done in Surrey and other places than they should also pay the costs for the crime that goes with it.
EC
The real gist and background to this issue has yet to be written.
The contribution by David Gosse is not very profound but at least it provides ammunition for further debate.
What is missing here is the cause of the gang problems and policing problems.
Following is a letter that I have sent to all major papers:
Policing, gang warfare, and the Ministry of Children and Families' lack of adequate funding are intrinsically linked. If we do not look after our children's welfare and spend money on early intervention and prevention regarding their physical and mental health, we, as a society will pay (and are paying) a very high price! These "abandoned" kids grow up to become criminals and gang members. Their needs are not being met.
I am someone who is very disappointed with the RCMP - what happened to them? They were such a symbol of honesty, integrity, morality and I looked up at them like they walked on water. Now they are filled with scandal, and I think the North Vancouver RCMP are a total waste of time, especially here in Lower Lonsdale.
I really believe that Const. Dabiri is doing the best he can, but I really wonder about the leadership here in N.V.
Sue Cook
Amalagamation. Why stop with the police?
Jeez Wendy, is there anything you don't have all the answers for?
And now you're blaming gangs on the Ministry of Children?
incredible...
"Why stop with the police?"
To serve and protect the innocent before there are any more victims due to the multiple shootings taking place by organized criminals in Metro Vancouver (and the rest of British Columbia too) to settle accounts between the gangs.
The City would love to have an amalgamated police force with the District just as they love the existing amalgamated services when it comes to recreation including playing fields. It saves them a lot of money.
As for total amalgamation with the District?....You can forget it.
If you pay people $8 per hour and charge them $1000 per month for a place to live and $10 a day for transportation plus expect them to pay for the cost of food and clothing you must expect crime.
Lets face it, no matter how hard you pray and how often you go to church in your spare time, it just is not enough to live on.
Solution?...... selling drugs, prostitution, theft etc.
This is the issue and everything else is unadulterated horsedung dished out by the rich and their government to make sure it stays that way.
Hello Sue:
The crisis in our Police Force is but a reflection of the general crisis of our moribund system.
How do you think our police feel when they catch criminals only to see them released because there is not enough room in our jails or because they can afford expensive laywers.
The corruption permeates every nook in our society including immigration, our political, government and judicial system.
It is the result of widespread corruption, injustice and a general breakdown of the moral tenures needed for a society to function.
But don't worry it will get a lot worse and the only time it will get better is if people say "enough is enough".
If you think that an amalgamated police force will reduce crime in the region then you simply don't understand what is going on.
Why do you think a person without a criminal record and without even as much as a traffic violation but has participated in a peaceful anti war march 30 years ago is known to the police and is stopped at the border, but criminals with a record as long as the Fraser River are allowed into the country and allowed to operate?
If you can figure that one out than you will be close to understanding what is really going on in Canada.
Don't you understand that the whole system is utterly corrupt and that proposals such as forming a regional police force are mere attempts to befuddle the public and grasp at straws albeit it might not be a bad idea in itself?
Amalgamated sure, Metro no chance. I would love to see a North Shore Police force that streched from Deep Cove to Porteau Cove. It would have 6 simple points of entry, 1st and Second Narrows, HWY 1 & 99, Seabus and BC Ferries.
The current headquarters of the RCMP would still be the best HQ. West Van police could keep their drinking clubhouse by the beach, but the admin would be combined with NV.
Eventually all emergency services would be combined including all BC Ambulances for the Lions Gate Hospital Region, and the all Fireprotection services (This would acctually be the toughest to amalgamate). North Shore Search and Rescue and the Lifeboat Society/Coast Guard Aux already view this as one region.
North Shore Wide YES! Metro No.
Mr Dion may be an honest man, in fact I am sure he is, but his party is utterly corrupt and Mr. Harper our Prime Minister may not himself be a crook and I am sure he is not, but his party and many of his cronies are corrupt and as long as the people of Canada keep voting for the same gang, nothing will change and our crime rate will continue to go up no matter what police system we have.
The old line parties have ruined Canada. Get rid of them. Start in North Vancouver.
NOVEMBER 11 - RMEMBERANCE DAY -DOES ANYONE WHO BLOGS HERE EVEN CARE? WHY ARE ONLY ABOUT 5% OF THE POPULATION ARE WEARNING POPPIES?
WHY WASN' THERE EVEN ONE SYMBOL OF REMBERANCE ANYWHERE IN PARK ROYAL ----OH I KNOW BECAUSE THIS IS JUST ANOTHER BIG SHOPPING DAY FOR MOST PEOPLE AND THE MERCHANTS.
MY FATHERS TANK WAS SHOT. HE MANAGED TO CRAWL OUT AND WAS PUT ON THE BACK ON ANOTHER TANK. AS HE WAS TAKEN TO AN OLD FARMHOUSE IN HOLLAND HE WATCHED AS THE BOMBS WENT AROUND HIM. HE WAS TAKEN IN THE FARM HOUSE AND WAS GIVE ALCOHOL AS THAT WAS ALL THAT THEY HAD. HE WATCHED AS THEY SAWED HALF OF HIS LEG OFF. HE WATCHED AS THEY CARRIED THAT PART OF HIS LIMB OUT. HE WAS 21 YEARS OLD.
DOES ANYONE REALLY CARE ANYMORE.
SUE COOK
Sue, if you don't think anyone cares, just be at the Cenotaph in Victoria Park in about an hour. You'll see how many people care.
WRITTEN BY ERNIE CRIST
Hello Sue:
Your father's Heroism as well as that of Peter Powell and Jim Ball, all conservatives and all members of District Council was recognised in a special resolution I made on the occasion of a "Nov 11" when I served on District Council.
In the true spirit of Nov. 11, I asked them to support my motion that along with 56,000 cities and municipalities throughout the world the District of North Vancouver be declared a nuclear free zone in a symmbolic gesture of universal peace.
Your father voted in favor of the resolution thus showing his profound understanding of the issues of the day.
As expected, there were people who said such a motion was out of place.
My response was that if it could be shown that in the event of a nuclear holocaust the radio active dust clouds would stop on the borders of North Vancouver, the motion would indeed be out of place.
But nobody stepped forward.
Your father is not forgotten and neither are his sacrifices in the fight against the fascist beast, our common enemy.
Ernie Crist
Returning to the main topic... More enforcement will not solve the problem. The problem is the attractiveness of the lucrative drug trade in a society where young people have no hope of starting out life the way their parents did (by that, I mean with a stable trade/job and an affordable home/family). There are no more safe jobs that permit one to start out life with some measure of stability. Everything costs so much money that it discourages young people from even trying to "make it" the legal way. Therefore they turn to crime, crime that obviously pays very well. The chances of getting killed are not the deterrent that we would think, they see it as a risk worth taking. What is the other option anyways?
The solution is obvious: Eliminate the lucrative drug market by legalizing and controlling the distribution of currently illegal narcotics. The "was on drugs" is LOST! LOST! LOST! Our leaders need to do what's right and cut society's losses NOW! It isn't too late, but we're getting there.
Dave,
This is off topic but you had asked me on the UBC research session post,
How can we as community members become involved in projects happening on the north shore? How can we also involve youth seeing how as it's their future?
My answer is:
Have a big emphasis in schools on assemblies and science projects similar to the 'adult' UBC 'session'.
Re-emphasize community clean ups of beaches and creeks and hands-on projects.
Why not a have a nine month (school year)long project focused the risks of global warming to the community.
I trust this answers both your questions.
I DID GO TO VICTORIA PARK AND WAS PLEASED BY THE TURNOUT. HOWEVER, IT WAS VERY SAD TO SEE ONLY 10 VETS IN THE PARADE.
WHEN THEY MARCHED DOWN 15TH TO THE ARMORIES THERE WERE PROBABLY LESS THEN 10 PEOPLE THERE TO CHEER THEM ON.
WE NEED TO DO MORE FOR REMEMBENCE DAY, BUT MAYBE IN A DIFFERENT WAY. I AM WORKING ON SOMETHING THAT I AM GOING TO SEND TO DON BELL AND CITY OF NORTH VANCOUVER.
I JUST WONDER WHY A PAGE OF THIS BLOG WAS NOT DEDICATED TO THE DAY, BUT I SAW GOOD OLD GEORGE AT THE ARMORY SO MAYBE HE WILL COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT I AM SURE WILL BE CHARMING.
SUE COOK
Thank you for your comment John.
I really don't consider any Topic as being "done". I do re-read all of the topics to ensure that I won't miss anything that has been added, even an Update, that is written on NorthVancouverPolitics.com.
I would prefer that those who post and comment to Barry Forward's blog, do so under their given names, registered of course, because then they would have the ability to do their own "housecleaning" instead of leaving it up to others, especially if the comments appear to be out of context with the topic at hand.
To use the "Other" category as a means to leave a comment, it sometimes brings out the worst in individuals.
The other thing is that although Barry encourages us to email him at discussion@northvancouverpolitics.com with suggestions on new topics, there are those amongst us who are "too timid" to respond to his request simply because it may appear to show their hand as to leaning in one direction on a specific topic before they have had time to hear all sides of a debate, and well before they have reached the stage of facing others at an All Candidates Meeting.
I would like to suggest that Barry create a Topic post that is for the "off topic comments" that would remain in place, for say a miniumum of 14 days based on their date/time stamp so that contributors/bloggers could mull over the ideas and then form an opinion that may be posted for discussion by others.
As to Sue Cook....
I "lost" my British Grandfather, of the Coldstream Guards to the trenches of France, but that doesn't mean that I can say I understand Sue Cook's grieveing on this day of Remembrance because of the the hardships that her Father had to endure from an injury sustained under enemy fire that eventually ended a war that guaranteed freedom of speech that we all enjoy in Canada today. My Mother was eight years old at the time of his death and it took another five years before her Mother (my Grand Mother) could gather enough funds together to bring the family (a sister and brother, both younger than my Mother) of four out to Vancouver.
Again, thank you John for your input to this post. If you wouldn't mind, could you delete your comment, and ensure that one that you posted on UBC Research Session Report is an accurate reflection of the one here, and to your satisfaction.
And having said all of the above, I guess I need to delete this comment because its off topic too.
Barry...........????
Hi Dave - I think you have a very good post here, and the reason I interupped it is because I am not able to post on my own.
I was surprised there was not a post this morning dedicated to the fact that it is Nov. 11th and I would hope that those who wish to get involved politically would want to express their feelings about this very imporant day.
As for the topic, I must say I was very impressed by the number of RCMP officers that were in the parade today they made quite a good impression.
Sue Cook
You could post on your own Sue, all you have to do is contact Barry at his email address:
discussion@northvancouverpolitics.com
By the way, I thought I saw your name lit up in "blue" as a registered handle. True or False?
If you were registered, then you could edit (delete), but save it to your computer first, then re-submit your comment.
Best Wishes
I agree with you Dave Gosse:
"I would like to suggest that Barry create a Topic post that is for the "off topic comments" that would remain in place, for say a miniumum of 14 days based on their date/time stamp so that contributors/bloggers could mull over the ideas and then form an opinion that may be posted for discussion by others." Dave Gosse
My suggestion is to keep this "off topic" post at the top of the line of posts. Perhaps after 50 comments, they should be deleted.
This will keep all comments on topic with newer posts.
Great idea Dave!
Wendy
In regards to the stated topic of this post Wendy, do you have any thoughts on the last paragraph?
Should we have a combined police force on the North Shore and do you see the first nation people as being an active financial participants, as well?
Anon 12:26am. Interesting post concerning amalgamation of NS emergency services.
I like your ideas re the police.
Amalgamate North Shore Fire and Ambulance as per the US, and much of the rest of Canada to create more cost efficient fire/paramedics.
Attach Emergency Programme staff and volunteers under command of professional emergency response officers. i.e. police or fire/paramedic senior officers.
Whole system would then be coordinated by emergency professionals supported by volunteers.
The superfluous politicians involved with managing volunteer emergency personnel would be eliminated from this model and replaced by professionals.
'Sense of helplessness' in fighting crime violence
Doug Ward, Vancouver Sun
Published: Saturday, November 10, 2007
"The recent surge in gang-related murders has convinced two-thirds of Metro Vancouver residents that local police forces should merge, a new Angus Reid Strategies poll says...........
Metro police forces should merge: poll"
----------------------
Is the one third who are against merging of police forces in Metro Vancouver, living on the north shore?
------------------------------
Come on Ernie, get out of your DNV sandbox and get involved with greater Vancouver problems by offering at least one viable solution rather than always being such a naysayer to new ideas and blaming others for their failure to act in the past.
Maybe you have not been listening.
A regional super investigation team and structure is already in place and the District is already paying for that.
If you think that a regional police force will help District residents you are sadly mistaken.
All you will do is pay more and get less. You will be subsidising Surrey and the other municipalities who have chosen high density and the crime that goes with it.
Trust me.
EC
"EC" is right.
It is foolish to assume that a regional police force would improve the existing service.
If you have think you have to wait long now before the police is able to respond in an emergency, you will be waiting that much longer.
If you complain you will get the proverbial bureaucratic runaround.
I'm all for vigilantism EC. Crimes against society are immediate, no waiting around for the troops to arrive, no need to listen to plea bargains, costs are minimal and no high speed police chases either.
If Surrey can't deal with the bad guys because of lack of funding, and we on the north shore don't give a damn about Surrey residents & their overflowing problems onto neighbouring municipalities, then we deserve the kind of life that lower lonsdale is descending into.
Whatever happened to your union beliefs Ernie where by working together we (families) all gained benefits, such as a pension plan and medical\dental plans after the strike in 64? The RRSPs that we enjoy today are a direct reflection of working together (by having gone on strike) that will sustain our life styles as we grow older.
You want to turn your back on Surrey, go for it. You want to turn your back on Afghanistan, go for it. Go back to playing political games in your sandbox EC, its only big enough for one.
On the off-topic posters, many of these postings deal with other discussions other than the one being discussed at the time. So what is required is a bit of self-discipline in posting in the right place.
Most of us do so all the time in their daily lives - I wash my face and brush my teeth in the bathroom, not in the kitchen sink (even though the kitchen sink would in many cases do just as well). I wash my pots in the kitchen, not the bathroom. I store my lawn mower in the shed not in the middle of my driveway.
All that's required is a bit of self-discipline to make things work more smoothly for all of us.
This big wave of gang crime in our region has really hit home with me
Christy Clark, Special to The Province
".......When a man was gunned down outside his Shaughnessy home recently, the regional gang unit confirmed that it had long known he was a member of the Big Circle Gang. VPD said they had no idea.
That's a big problem. Drugs that get made in Port Moody may be sold in Burnaby or Abbotsford. The kingpins who run the trade might have homes in Vancouver, and the people who kill for them could live in Surrey or Coquitlam. Their crimes are connected, regardless of municipal borders.
Our police must be, too. ......"
On North Vancouver policing, I draw people's attention to the excellent article by Bill Bell in Sunday's NS News.
In the article Chief Tomlinson discusses what he feels are the main challenges and some of the advantages we have over other municipalities.
Definitely worth your read.
BC _used_ to have its own provincial police force but it was disbanded in the early days of WAC Bennett in the mid-50s. As I understand it most of its members joined the RCMP. (This was long before my time of course!)
WRITTEN BY ERNIE CRIST:
I am sorry, I can't help you if you don't understand that our crisis in our social and criminal justice system has become endemic.
The reaction of the police, the judges and even the criminals themselves is merely a symptom.
It is a reflection of the growing crisis afflicting our society which has put it's money on continued large scale corruption and tolerance of corruption.
I had to laugh this morning when I read in the Globe and Mail that the Liberals have come up with yet another plan to reduce poverty in Canada, especially child poverty.
If you are talking about creating the conditions for crime, well there is one example - child povery - something the whole country should be ashamed off.
Not everything but the whole thing is wrong. But nothing will happen until the people wake up and they won't for a while because they still feed on the corporate medicine telling them to stay asleep, everything is fine and all we need is a little fix.
EC
I am not impressed by Tomlinson at all. I wonder where he was when council decided not to have the Crime Free Multi Housing program, why he wanted to charge for crime stats in a small area of North Van (once again George yours were NOT what we were looking for. I also understand he would not give information regarding which buildings had the most police calls (I was not the one who asked so I did hear this second hand)
I personally think the heat is on the RCMP and there is a now more and more support for a North Shore Police Force - especially when we saw how quickly West Van acted with their Chief. What action can we take if we are not happy with Tomlinson - little or none and we deserve better then that.
Sue Cook
November Issues
Sue Cook hates the police.
Post a Comment