It has been a busy couple of months, and now that the provincial election campaign is over - I agree with John Sharpe - we should talk about how we simplify the voting process. Why can't I vote from the comfort of my own home? If we made it easy for our young people (and everyone else) to vote - I suggest the number of under 30s participating in our elections would skyrocket. Maybe it's time for one of our political jurisdictions to take a chance and introduce online voting! I know the old timers will protest and say that voting is a privilege, and that young people should get off their butts and get to the polling stations.
Well, quite simply, that's not happening!
The time has come for us to take voting into the 21st Century and create something that makes sense to all of us!
Thursday, May 14, 2009
Election Over: What Next?
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37 opinions/comments:
Barry,
The old timers are also the ones who generally have less access to the 'online' world so they have another reason to protest. Perhaps there has to be a second alternative (or third with normal balloting) over the phone. They have tried this with limited success in the State of Hawaii.
Having said that, I agree with the other Barry that there are no or very few quality candidates so unless that changes, I'm not sure it would change much except encourage laziness.
Perhaps a survey is needed.
By the way, Welcome back.
Great to be back!
Telephone voting is similarly challenged to online voting as most people under 30 do not have landlines and use cellphones exclusively.
I don't know about you but the seniors I know are wired and online big time!
You know, the people I've talked to in North Van.(since Tuesday who have all voted)and it's been quite a few different types of folks, are all disapointed with the election. They were in favour of STV, and against Rors, and the whole Campbell Liberal mentality and yet here we are again with another BC Liberal sweep of our community.
Meet the new boss, he's the same as the old boss.
God help us.
You got that right "there are no or very few quality candidates" even more so at the municipal level
I have two daughters who cast their first provincial vote this week and both did in fact support STV while both their parents did not.
I really disliked the referendum ballot since it said we were voting for STV or FPTP.
No not really - I'd like to see SOME reform but do not agree that the proposal we were voting on was the way to go.
Bear in mind that if we had voted yes we were committed at least until 2025 - I'll be 70 then and so it's doubly important to me to get it right the first time.
You know, I think that the government does a good job of making voting accessible for all. Heck, you're even allowed to leave work early to exercise your democratic right.
As for candidates, we (in North Van Lonsdale) had two great, smart candidates - one the president of the Chamber of Commerce, the other a former North Van mayor.
Barry,
Take a bow. You and Tim did a fine job in Lonsdale.
I don't care how many gadgets might be introduced, cellphones, shoe phones, online, offline. If a voter doesn't care enough to get to a voting station, these trinkets you suggest will make but a small difference.
Voter cynicism is real, is a powerful disincentive to vote and cannot be conquered by trifles.
Dennis Bevington
Dennis, who is "Tim"?
Glad you're back Barry! Naomi will be an excellent representative of North Van-Lonsdale. As well will be Jane in North Van Seymour.
As pointed out in today's Vancouver Sun, many of the MLAs are new. We have a new party. It has the same name and the same leader and the same major players, however it is NEW. And I am encouraged by Campbell's talk about engagement with all parties. It is very encouraging.
Like Barry, "Tim" Morrison is one of North Van's political pros. As Bill Bell pointed out a few weeks back, both Barry and Tim are master political operatives, especially when it comes to the North Shore political scene. It is clear that Naomi Yamamoto had some very talented people running her campaign. Her victory is something for other political up-and-comers to study and replicate. This observer would even goes as far as saying there is a Yamamoto machine now firmly in place in North Shore politics.
The young timers are also the ones who would know how to cheat the most.
And the campaign teams would find many opportunities to cheat as well.
Elections BC would have to distribute a PIN number or something and this could be used by others. Collecting that data would become a GOTV technique.
So Barry why did your candidate refuse to show up at the ACM which was sponsored by the NVTA? She also did "not have time" for a walk through our very troubled neighborhood, even though the other candidates did.
Did your candidate take the time to visit with those who live on the Mission Reserve of Squamish Nation, the Salvation Army, the Homeless Shelter, the Harvest Project?
I would like to know where your candidate spent her time and whom exactly she will represent?
(I am aware that I am very unlikey to get a straight answer on this blog, and am really looking forward to all the personal attacks I am about to get)
Sue said, "It's all about me, me, me, me, me, me, me ....!!!"
Sue:
The campaign is now over and I suggest that we all move to the next stage.
This post is about engagement and how we get more people exercising their franchise and voting!
Like you I am an advocate for getting involved in our democratic process. My hope is that we pass over the baton respectfully to our young people, acknowledging where they are at - the new digital reality that they all live and work in.
Barry
Online voting has some crucial difficulties.
1) It's difficult to verify the identity of the online voter without a very costly system.
2) Secret Balloting is a fundamental part of our system, there is no paper trail between your identity and your ballot (The number recorded on your ballot is to make sure that ballots aren't missing, it cannot be tied to who cast the 180th ballot at poll 100). Online voting leaves an e-trail connecting the voter or at least the computer to the ballot.
3) Auditing results adds confidence to the voters. Electronic voting doesn't allow for any level of verification of the results. If the computer says Oppal won by two votes, there is no other way to double check the results, or review for computer errors.
4) My personal pet peeve, spoiling a ballot is typically restricted in electronic voting. I believe that spoiling a ballot is a legitimate political protest.
I agree with Dennis "Boom Boom" Bevington, that most lazy people will still be lazy people under a new voting system. Personally I think we should be adopting the Australian system and giving a tax incentive to voters to be paid for by non-voters.
I can't say I support on-line voting. Just 8 years ago, we were all looking to the south with wonderment about how the results from American electronic voting booths magically didn't gell with exit polls. If we had an unscrupulous enough politician of the Bush variety, I'm sure he/she would think nothing of taking advantage of the internet's hackability.
On a different note, I think it's interesting that the first thing that comes to "older folks" minds when it comes to getting young people to vote is the internet.
The reality is, both major political parties were doing everything their internet gurus told them to do this election and neither could get even 3000 people to follow their Twitter feed.
In other words, the internet does not magically engage young people in processes that don't interest them.
On the other hand, Barack Obama's appeal got millions of American youth to visit a physical polling booth, so it's not as though you CAN'T make a young person vote the old fashioned way.
People give too much credit to the internet and not enough credit to the candidate.
So, in short, I agree with Barry Reuger's post on the last thread: The problem is the quality of candidates and parties...and I would say also the quality of the discourse.
I think it is compounded by a media's vacuous "horse race" style of electon reporting.
Jane has stated that she is planning to step down as school trustee, this summer. Although she can legitimately hold both seats, she knows being an MLA will be a full-time job for her, and then some.
Will there be another by-election in the air for DNV, by early September?
"Although she can legitimately hold both seats, she knows being an MLA will be a full-time job for her, and then some."
It is impossible for her to hold both seats. It is legal, but impossible, since her School Board Public meeting schedule requires her presence by law. She is permitted to miss a few meetings, but any more and she will be statuatorily removed anyway.
So Sue, why does Naomi's door knocking for two solid months in Lonsdale not count as walking through the neighbourhood?
Is it because she didn't follow you around on one of your self serving egoistical media stunts?
As for special interest groups running candidates' forums, they are a waste of time. Really, any candidates meeting is just made up people associated with one of the candidates and a few wannabe attention seeking politicians such as yourself. A serious candidate will meet more undecided voters on the doorstep.
Respectfully,
Naomi doorknocked the Mission Reserve and almost every door of the 108 neighborhoods of the North Vancouver-Lonsdale riding.
She cares about Lower Lonsdale (where she lives) as much as she cares about all the neighborhoods and all the people in her riding.
Look forward Sue, to her representation, for you and for all of us, in Victoria. Stop looking back, look forward.
Naomi cares about the environment, nature, health, education, arts, fishing, running, the economy, jobs, small business, crime, workers, seniors .... you and me!
118 polls in the riding ?
cell phones, computers, twitters and any electronic toys are subject to cheating.
It is shocking that the voter turnout has gone down. Is it only the seniors and politcal junkies who are voting? Naomi was a stellar candidate, so it's not the quality that is lacking.
What would get the younger voter to the polls? Money? Tax credits?
How about a Youth Forum debate. The previous All-Candidates meetings have usually been an opportunity for interested voters to hear from all the candidates.
1)How about if we have an all-candidates for business (the Chamber would normally do this, but graciously bowed out this time, because the candidate was the President
2) An All-Candidates for Youth. (Who will decide at what age youth ends?)
3) An All-Candidates for Seniors. They are the voting majority ...
Everyone join in with your groups and categories.
I think when there are issues that stir up a community, like what happened in Delta South for instance, you're going to get a high turn-out. They had the highest percentage of all ridings this time (66%). So low voter turnout may indicate that voters don't see anything particular wrong. The cynic in me would counter that voters stay home because whomever wins, nothing changes much. Ah well 'tis true, if you didn't vote then you certainly can't complain about the result.
CKNW Breaking News...
A new judge will have to be appointed in the BC Rail corruption court case because BC Supreme Court Justice Elizabeth Bennett has been promoted to BC's Court of Appeal.
Just takin' out the trash late Friday afternoon of a long weekend.
Well, please explain all the agonizing.
Back in the 90's when Chretien went to war against the Serbs, , I asked a bunch of very bright students what they thought of it.
They didn't know about it. (They don't read newspapers.) They thought it didn't matter (Too far away, who cares?).
Right then and there, I came to the conclusion that THEY shouldn't be enfranchised.
Lord Russel back in the 1830's thought that (1) men (2) men over 35 and (3) property holders should be the ones to vote.
We must modify Lord Russell's requirements. The test should be (1) people, (2) people over 35 and (3) people who hold property.
These tests would ensure a better turnout.
Dennis Bebington
Same turnout, but just a better percentage of eligible voters.
"Dennis Bebington"
A new judge will be appointed in the ongoing legal saga surrounding the BC Rail corruption scandal.
Elizabeth Bennett was overseeing the case in B.C. Supreme Court, but she has been appointed to the provincial Court of Appeal.
A spokesman for the Crown says that means a new judge must be chosen to take over a complex case that began with a police raid of the provincial legislature more than five years ago.
The raid targeted the offices of two ministerial aides - Dave Basi and Bobby Virk - who were charged with accepting a benefit, fraud and breach of trust in relation to the sale of BC Rail.
It's alleged they took money from lobbyists representing CN's rival for the purchase of BC Rail, OmniTrax, in exchange for confidential information about the $1-billion sale.
The charges have been winding their way through pre-trial arguments, and the Supreme Court of Canada's decision to review an aspect of the case will delay a trial even further.
(The Canadian Press)
PS out of the mouths of babes comes baby talk and nothing more.
Dennis Bevington
PPS "b" and "v" are but one space apart..
So instead of online voting, let's make the citizens of Canada the effective Senate, with the final vote on passing or defeating legislation. That can be done by modern communications, and there would be no more need to ensure anonymity than there would be to hide the identities of Senators or MPs and how they vote. This would limit the ability of government to enact legislation the majority of Canadians do not want, and would also limit the power of the government generally. The government would introduce and pass whatever they wanted but without approval by Canadians it would not be in passed and in force. The exception would be a national emergency such as war or some major disaster.
This will come, and the sooner the better.
Gary B. Hee's comment on May 15,2009:
To the winners of the 2009 B.C. Election, I congratulate you for your success. To my supporters and voters, I thank you for your backing and trust. I decided late to participate in this 2009 election; yet, I was not discouraged. I knowledged that the Liberal and NDP parties have large sums of accumulated donation money to run their expensive campaign;still, I was not discouraged. I worked hard and endlessly to fulfil my duties, willingly, as the B.C. Conservative Candidate for North Vancouver - Seymour Constituency. My budget was small, effective, and meaningful to me as a newcomer, which resulted in 865 votes for my first time. Despite the pressure and stress developed in this special election and regardless of the geographical terrain that I had to travel, endure, and overcome, I was not discouraged. I ran this campaign with hope, pride, and honour to serve those who know me. During the last 3 weeks, my dearest grandson was simultaneously, admitted to the B.C. Childrens Hospital in Vancouver, for his open heart surgery and now experiences unexpected complication. For him, I persevered. To Maxxwell, I say "I love you". Lance Armstrong once said, "Be Strong", while Obama once said "Yes, we can". To serve unselfishly with hope for those who suffer pain or the lost of love ones by various reasons, I feel for you. I cry with you. Life is precious and no money can buy. To those individuals who have faith in me, I thank you sincerely and truthfully for your support in the BC 2009 election.
Oh please - Naomi did NOT come around our neighborhood, and if she went to the Mission Reserve that would be a surprise to the people that I know there.Please tell me just how many doors she knocked on between Lonsdale and Forbes, and 12th to Esplanade?
This is NOT about me - but actually I do not expect much more from this blog other then "nasties" coming in my direction.
So Barry - moving forward - what exactly is your government planning to do about the addciton, homelessness, and high crime in our area?
You may want to look forward, but you may like to take fast look to the past - what exactly happened to the last Premier who won three times in a row? His party is now where? You may also want to remember it was not too long ago that the NDP only had two people sitting in the house.
In any case the only real ego here is that of the Liberal Party and the representation in the Province will not be equally distributed to all. This will be your LAST major victory.
Sue, if the economy tanks further, where is the money going to come from to pay for what you want? Your NDP isn't the party to build this economy, just spend all our money on programmes that generate no investment in our Province. Without a strong economy and business community, there will be even more for you to stamp your feet and complain about. It's not all about you or your little neighborhood. There are thousands of people in this Province (myself included) who have lost their jobs and are wondering how to make mortgage payments and look after their families. Why don't you start speaking up for EI reform so that unemployed workers don't have to sell their homes (or get foreclosed on) or other assets? The NDP are notorious for fiscal mismanagement and you're going to have to consider that if you're going to expect the citizens of this Province to pay for what you want in your little neighborhood. Funny, my friends who live in your neighborhood quite like it. I've heard no complaints from them. But then, they're usually busy enjoying their neighborhood and what it offers, rather than looking for things to complain about.
Wendy, you like nthe liberal candidates??? You're always compalining about the liberals. Do you ever really make up your mind?
You will probably respond by saying, "I support them on their own merit".
They still tow the party line. If they don't they get the boot.
Hello Sue,
Re: your comment 9:06 AM; "So Barry why did your candidate refuse to show up....(I might also like his take about the NCSU 7,500.00 donation)but, Barry is right the election is over and it is a different topic.
I would respectfully suggest to you Sue that you arrange with Barry for posting rights. You have a lot to say and can start a newtopic.
Cheers, John
Dennis,
I Couldn't agree with your comment more.
I do not think online voting is the answer either. I wouldn't tust it's accuracy.
I'm not sure what the answer is but, for the most part I'm with Monica and Heather; we need some 'Obamas' to vote for. Someone who inspires, that gets our attention, that reflects good ol' common sense values. Someone who makes us get off our duffs and go all that long way to polling station and check a ballot and makes us feel good about it.
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